Comments for Torah Musings http://www.torahmusings.com Sun, 21 Dec 2014 13:36:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.0.1 Comment on New Science, Same Torah by micha http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/12/new-science-torah/#comment-93752 Sun, 21 Dec 2014 13:36:53 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=38060#comment-93752 The Maharal’s style is, admittedly, very amenable to Rorschach test reading.

However, (now that R’ Zev Friedman gives us cut-n-pastable text) he does say (bottom pg 60), “For example, an individual [Copernicus] known for developing a new system arose on the scene. He presented an alternative model, and proved incorrect all previous understandings and models of the orbits of the stars, the constellations and astronomical objects.”

Which is a pretty odd thing to find if he was rejecting Copernicus’s theory.

You can see in the snippet provided why I thought the Maharal was limiting his statements to unsettled science. Where, “Nonetheless, (begin p. 61) Copernicus himself writes that there are issues he is unable as of yet to resolve” and “there is disagreement and no consensus.” That he is “only saying our mesorah is more valuable than following the scientific community’s latest fad, and not being as general as referring to science as a whole

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Comment on New Science, Same Torah by Gil Student http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/12/new-science-torah/#comment-93519 Fri, 19 Dec 2014 17:22:23 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=38060#comment-93519 I appreciate all this debate about what the Maharal held and am willing to consider alternate readings. I still do not see how to read the Maharal as agreeing with Copernicus.

That said, it has no impact on my article’s main thesis.

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Comment on Daily Reyd by joel rich http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/12/daily-reyd-291/#comment-93510 Fri, 19 Dec 2014 15:39:50 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=38232#comment-93510 A difficult issue – balancing a need for revenue and the primary mission of an institution.

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Comment on Daily Reyd by mycroft http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/12/daily-reyd-291/#comment-93484 Fri, 19 Dec 2014 10:19:17 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=38232#comment-93484 “Other ideas that President Joel has brainstormed is …charging 99 cents for a shiur from YU Torah “

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Comment on New Science, Same Torah by Zev Friedman http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/12/new-science-torah/#comment-93467 Fri, 19 Dec 2014 06:00:54 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=38060#comment-93467 Admittedly, a quick reading of the Nesiv Hatorah does give such an impression, however a deliberate (slow!) reading will demonstrate the Maharal says no such thing. Indeed, on page 49 of the work under review, Professor Brown writes that Maharal takes no side in the Copernicus/Ptolmey debate.
Below find a “free” translation of the selection from the Maharal. I have taken the occasion to present this translation so as to directly examine what exactly Maharal did and did not say.
The Hebrew text in this selection of Maharal is “choppy” and abrupt. It is easy to see from readingthe selection where the notion of the Maharal contradicting Copernicus would emerge from. Again, however, a full treatment of the text I believe demonstrates that while the Maharal might not have felt that Copernicus was on firm ground scientifically, he does not assert the tradition of Torah was in opposition to heliocentrism. I would appreciate dialogue from other readers if anything concerning the Torah’s view of Copernicus emerges from a deliberate reading of the Maharal.

“… And that which the Torah says ‘For it is your Wisdom in the eyes of the nations,’ the explanation is because the nations desire advanced understanding of this science. As we all know, they would develop exceedingly profound levels of understanding of this science.
Constantly, new scholars always arose after previous ones and negated the ideas that the earlier scholars had apprehended after great effort. For example, an individual (Copernicus) known for developing a new system arose on the scene. He presented an alternative model, and proved incorrect all previous understandings and models of the orbits of the stars, the constellations and astronomical objects. Nonetheless, (begin p. 61) Copernicus himself writes that there are issues he is unable as of yet to resolve.
When the Jews compute seasons and movements of the constellations (and?) they present lucid, well-reasoned explanations.
The reason that there is disagreement and no consensus (between Gentile scholars) concerning the length of the time of the circuit of the sun and the moon is because each individual scholar researched using his own approach and his own intellect, and one cannot (accurately) ascertain the seconds and hours of the orbit of each orb (via observation and reasoning. Thus, disagreement is unavoidable.)
But the Jewish scholars, who had a tradition passed down to them from Moshe at Sinai given to him from G-d may He be blessed, only through this can one know the reality (alternatively, only He can know the reality.) Thus, for that which we have as a tradition concerning the movement of the sun and the moon, we say on this (tradition) that it is more correct and more acceptable. All the more so during the era of the first Jewish scholars, based on the tradition they received from Moshe’s prophecy, they knew the reality as it actually is. On this (tradition) it is said ‘For it is your Wisdom in the eyes of the nations.'”

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Comment on Daily Reyd by joel rich http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/12/daily-reyd-291/#comment-93399 Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:09:05 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=38232#comment-93399 In general I would agree with you. However just accepting “it was the CFO’s and systems’ fault” would not go unchallenged in the real world.

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Comment on Daily Reyd by Gil Student http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/12/daily-reyd-291/#comment-93393 Thu, 18 Dec 2014 14:52:09 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=38232#comment-93393 I doubt a college student has the experience to know how to pursue a complex story like that.

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Comment on Daily Reyd by joel rich http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/12/daily-reyd-291/#comment-93390 Thu, 18 Dec 2014 13:48:44 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=38232#comment-93390 The French aliyah story should be very haunting to all of us in galut-will we go home on our own or will we need divine assistance?

Interesting YU story – is the Commentator’s job to report an official position or to discuss the issues?

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Comment on Daily Reyd by micha http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/12/daily-reyd-290/#comment-93237 Wed, 17 Dec 2014 15:48:01 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=38210#comment-93237 I would ask how you could even post a link to “Should Writers Respond to Their Critics?” but I fear you wouldn’t bother answering.

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Comment on Dead Men Don’t Talk by blubluh http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/12/dead-men-dont-talk-2/#comment-93096 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 19:30:04 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=38194#comment-93096 “I’m still at a loss over why so many commentators reject the figurative explanation of R. Ya’akov Ibn Chabib.”

Perhaps the obstacle is the slippery slope of reinterpreting similar Talmudic references regarding what the dead know and say (eg. Brachos 18a – 19a).

If one deems all such references figurative and allegorical, is that then a rejection of the premise behind them (ie., the discussion of Rav Chiyyah and Rav Yonasan)?

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