Comments for Torah Musings http://www.torahmusings.com Fri, 18 Apr 2014 22:14:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9 Comment on Daily Reyd by Reb Yid http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/04/daily-reyd-146/#comment-74118 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 22:14:07 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=21406#comment-74118 MMH: Hillel would have done it on Pesach Rishon. The fact that (most of) our haggada/os quote the verse from sefer Bemidbar instead of sefer Shemos has been discussed at length, for example http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=51449&st=&pgnum=108 etc. But it shouldn’t fool you into thinking that Hillel was only doing it for pesach sheini (or pesach mitzrayim? Where would that come from?)

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Comment on Daily Reyd by Tal Benschar http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/04/daily-reyd-146/#comment-74116 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 16:14:05 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=21406#comment-74116 Micha, I hear you, but really, we are not talking about reports of a miracle or something fantastic. We are talking about making a sandwich. Our tradition says that one sage did that as part of his Passover ritual. Why in the world would the Talmudic sages make that up? To get (non-existent) royalty rights from the Earl of Sandwich 1700 years later?

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Comment on Daily Reyd by Tal Benschar http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/04/daily-reyd-146/#comment-74115 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 16:07:25 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=21406#comment-74115 The problem is that his statement implies that the whole thing may not be historically accurate, when there is no reason to think otherwise. It is clear that Hillel took a piece of the korban pesach, a piece of maror (probably a kind of lettuce) and wrapped them in matzoh. Yes, you can quibble a bit about this or that detail, but that means Hillel was eating a “sandwich,” or more like what we would today call a wrap.

What I am objecting to is the implication (taken by the author) that the whole thing was made up. Which is nonsense, this is not an aggadata about how big Og’s crib was, it is a report about how a tanna fufilled a mitzvah. No reason to doubt its historical accuracy.

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Comment on Style of Haggadah Commentaries by MiMedinat HaYam http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/04/style-of-haggadah-commentaries/#comment-74114 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 15:05:38 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=21408#comment-74114 Abraham Yaari has well over 2500 haggadot in his bibliographies, and thats only in print, and doesnt count haggadot with several commentaries.

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Comment on Daily Reyd by MiMedinat HaYam http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/04/daily-reyd-146/#comment-74113 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 14:55:17 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=21406#comment-74113 Not like a deli sandwich today, since modern (improper) chumrot today forbid sandwiches as “matzah shruya”.

Anyway, Hillel’s innovation was not the “sandwich”, it was doing it on pesach. DeOrayta, it is only required on pesach sheni (and pesach mitzrayim.)

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Comment on Daily Reyd by Gil Student http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/04/daily-reyd-146/#comment-74112 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:45:45 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=21406#comment-74112 Even if everything you are saying is correct, how is that detract from it being a sandwich? If anything, it is more like a sandwich you would eat in any deli today.

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Comment on Daily Reyd by Nachum Lamm http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/04/daily-reyd-146/#comment-74111 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:12:59 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=21406#comment-74111 Tal, what’s the problem? I don’t think anyone says that it’s out of the question that the barayta is citing something Hillel did, and that what he did involved combining the three elements somehow. The question is how exactly he did it. I don’t think it’s too revolutionary to point out that he had meat in his; nor that his marror was not grated horseradish; nor that his matza was not hard. Put all that together, and our “korech” resembles his barely if at all.

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Comment on Daily Reyd by micha http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/04/daily-reyd-146/#comment-74110 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 12:23:35 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=21406#comment-74110 His audience at CS Monitor is largely people who would confuse critical thought with bing critical. And certainly don’t share the assumed trust in Chazal you’re demanding.

In any case, wraps are far older than Hillel. The skeptics have no reason to be skeptical.

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Comment on Daily Reyd by Tal Benschar http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/04/daily-reyd-146/#comment-74109 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 01:02:59 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=21406#comment-74109 In the korech article:

“It’s really impossible to know with historical accuracy what Hillel actually did,” Rabbi Yuter says. “It’s certainly tradition that this is what he used to do.”

Why does he have to denigrate tradition? Is there any reason to think that the beraisa quoted in Pesachim 115a and the haggadah are not historically accurate? We are talking about a straightforward dispute about how to fulfill the mitzvah of eating korban pesach with matzoh and maror. These sources state clearly that Hillel did it one way. Why in the world should we think that is anything but accurate?

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Comment on If the Social Orthodox Had Been in Egypt, Would They Have Been Redeemed? by gidonrothstein http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/04/if-the-social-orthodox-had-been-in-egypt-would-they-have-been-redeemed/#comment-74105 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:22:53 +0000 http://www.torahmusings.com/?p=21390#comment-74105 Gary Pickholz,
I respect the depth of your feelings even as I disagree strongly with you. Without claiming to have an answer to the Holocaust, I have to say that faith in God has always been the core concept of Judaism– it is literally what made Avraham different than those around him.
I also think that characterizing the post Holocaust world as being one of constant evil and doubt is an unfortunate way to look at it. To see only one side of a picture is always a problem. In fact, post Holocaust life has largely been pretty good for the Jewish people (the Holocaust itself is the tragedy). Post Holocaust, we’ve seen many remarkable salvations– the establishment of the State of Israel, the rescue of Yemenite Jewry, the release of Soviet Jewry, the release of Ethiopian Jewry, the ability of Jews in the West to live according to their faith when they choose, the economic flourishing of the State, its success in most of its wars, etc. I’m not saying it’s all been great, but an objective evaluation would find much on the positive side as well (when we as a people certainly haven’t deserved all that good– assuming God does exist and has told us how to live, and the overwhelming majority of us refuse to live that way, why should we expect good rather than punishment?) And yet we get much good.
So I would urge you to maybe rethink your perspective. Without denying the issues you raise, I think you’re not seeing the whole picture. Being a Jew has always meant having faith, and has until relatively recently meant striving to follow Halachah. When Jews haven’t and then bad things happen, on a national scale, we can and should bemoan the tragedies, but if we then see a time of good and calm and bounty, let’s not lose sight of that part of the puzzle as well.
I do hope you find your way to a fuller picture of Hashem’s world, and that you find comfort in the good, even if it doesn’t take away the loss. As Job did, for example, in the restoration of his wealth and the birth of new children– they didn’t make up for the lost ones, but given that Hashem had decreed the loss of the first ones, he could take some comfort in building a new life. As I hope we will all be able to, until such time as we get the full comfort of the Arrival of Mashiach, the time of the Resurrection of the dead, and the death of death.

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